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mike
Dinosaur
United Kingdom
298 Posts |
 Posted - 03 June 2007 : 12:34:34 PM
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...but am too afraid to do so.
The State I'm In:
I'm happily married, my wife's pregnant, we're comfortably off, I've got what is considered a really good job with a good career going, but I'm just not happy. I know I should be - a lot of people would give their right arm for what I have.
I'm 37 now and know I don't want to be a wage slave for the rest of my life - there's got to be more to it than this, you're a long time dead and all that. I can afford to have no earnings for two years, after that it's remortgage time.
Any thoughts please?
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Alex Scarrow
Ape
968 Posts |
Posted - 03 June 2007 : 2:23:46 PM
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sheeeesh, big question.
I've been here Mike. I quit the computer games industry twice. Once to start writing (back then I was about to embark on A Thousand Suns)...I had an offer for a job lined up as and when I needed it though. After a year I went to this work-from-home job, and then quit that a couple of years later after I got my book deal. So really...in both cases where I left the rat race, I had a 'back up' of some sort.
It sounds like yours would be more of a leap of faith than mine. However...presumably if you downsize a little, smaller home, grow your own veggies, make a few sacrifices...then perhaps your 2 years could be 4-5?
If writing's your thing, I'd say 4-5 years is long enough to give it a go; time enough to write 2-3 novels and give them a fair chance to find a home with an agent. It's a gamble though Mike. And most importantly, don't waste a single moment of that time. Sit down on day one with a plan on how you'll schedule your first book - how many words a day etc etc.
If you want to discuss this in a little more detail offline, mail me.
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Edited by - Alex Scarrow on 03 June 2007 2:24:38 PM |
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Parmenion
Homosapien
United Kingdom
13792 Posts |
Posted - 03 June 2007 : 2:49:29 PM
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Mike
All i can say is if you have the plan in place then go for it, but make sure your not leaving your self with a mountain to climb if it goes wrong. LIfe is too short for loads of regrest , me im also looking at alternate methods for work, im sick of the office grind and living in a dilbert cartoon, i need that change, but currently my position does not lend itsself to just stopping, i need time to plan. If your already there...good luck to you.
Centurion Parmenion
LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE
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mike
Dinosaur
United Kingdom
298 Posts |
Posted - 03 June 2007 : 3:53:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Parmenion
i need that change, but currently my position does not lend itsself to just stopping, i need time to plan. If your already there...good luck to you.
Is there ever a right time? Or is it possible to always put barriers in the way?
My wife's pregnant with our first child and I'm talking about quitting a lucrative job, to do what exactly? It's madness. Gambling my kid's future on what? A pipedream. I'm just having a mid-life crisis that's all.
On the other hand, if I do nothing I'll be telling myself in 5 years time that I'm still not happy. Five years of my entire life just gone. I'm not sure what I was put on this earth for, but it wasn't to be sales and marketing director for a pensions company.
Is it just a question of bottle? Having the courage to believe in yourself and go for it?
Alex, if you're happy to say what your personal circumstances were when you took the plunge, I'd be interested.
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Parmenion
Homosapien
United Kingdom
13792 Posts |
Posted - 03 June 2007 : 5:07:30 PM
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some of its bottle, but you have to weigh whats most important, is it family and stability? but if you took that option would it mean that it changes you into someone you dont want to be by sticking at something you dont want to do.
17 years ago i made the decision to become a single parent to not live the life that most teens get to have of freedom of travel etc...do i regret it..yes sometimes, but no as a whole, i did what was right, i could not have lived with anyother decision, i would not be who i am if i had made another decision.
you need to find that in yourself what is the best decision a decision that you can live with !! no one else can make it for you and to be honest no one can help you make it, we can offer encourage ment and help once you have made it...but we cannot make it!
Centurion Parmenion
LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE
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Alex Scarrow
Ape
968 Posts |
Posted - 03 June 2007 : 5:15:00 PM
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I think in a way, it takes courage NOT to live your dream and instead keep the job and provide for your dependents. At the end of the day, if it goes well...people will say you were courageous for taking the leap, if it goes pear shaped, there will be those that criticise you for being irresponsible.
My circumstances were that I had a lad, a wife, a mortgage and I was the only breadwinner. But doing my job meant I was only seeing my boy at weekends, the wife was bored, and I was miserable and stressed. When I first jumped, we had about 18months worth of money in the bank to survive on...plus the offer of a job whenever I wanted it. After a year (a very useful year...I wrote SUNS!) I took up the job...during which time I started submitting the manuscript. And then about 18months later I got the publishing deal, and 6 months after that quit the job. The advance wasn't huge...but selling our house in Hastings and moving up to Norwich, we had enough dosh to keep us going about 5 yrs. The gamble being (and still ongoing as I write this) is that by the time our savings have completely vanished, I'm earning enough income from writing to keep us going. At the moment the income is woeful...but the prognosis for the future is encouraging. But...you know, it can all go tits-up at any moment; my editor changes job, my publisher loses tons of money on a bad celebrity book; my 2nd or 3rd book is ****e...any of those things and more, and it's game over.
That's it really. |
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mike
Dinosaur
United Kingdom
298 Posts |
Posted - 03 June 2007 : 5:56:47 PM
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Er...that didn't go down too well.
Over the roast I spoke with Louise, my wife. Her reaction was not exactly 100% supportive - she's five months pregnant and her husband wants to chuck his job in - though predictable. Stupid move mentioning it, to be honest, though she did agree that if my novel's successful (about a 1% chance by my reckoning) she'll support me quitting the firm.
Robin, you're right. Life's about trade-offs and right now I'm not willing to trade my kid's future for my own indulgence.
Alex, you say:
"you know, it can all go tits-up at any moment; my editor changes job, my publisher loses tons of money on a bad celebrity book; my 2nd or 3rd book is ****e...any of those things and more, and it's game over."
But would you regret what you've done? I doubt it.
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Alex Scarrow
Ape
968 Posts |
Posted - 03 June 2007 : 7:15:17 PM
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I think if I'd failed, wound up in debt, put my wife and son through hell, all for nothing....I'd regret it. You know, it's only those who end up successful who talk themselves up, who arrogantly say (in retrospect) that they had the cajones to trust their talent...blah blah blah.
I got lucky. Very lucky. But, even when I was gambling on this writing thing, I had a plan B....not a great plan B, but still...you know, something I could fall back on. |
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Parmenion
Homosapien
United Kingdom
13792 Posts |
Posted - 04 June 2007 : 08:38:06 AM
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mike many mnay writers make it through writing while they work, and once they start making money at it then they quit...it just takes hard work and a loss of any real spare time, i spend a lot of my evenings reading not for me but manuscripts for my agent business...its a hobby that may earn me some money, i try to write as well and maybe one day i will get some where with one of these things, in the mean time i suffer on with the day job.
I could make my odds better by choosing a single direction and making a plan. (that may be the way you should go, make that plan)
Centurion Parmenion
LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE
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Simon Scarrow
Small mammal
Uruguay
764 Posts |
Posted - 04 June 2007 : 09:04:38 AM
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Mike, there was a time when I would have given anything to be published. It was all I ever wanted, I told myself. And on the glorious day that my agent called to tell me about the first deal I would have quite happily have quit and written full time. Now? Nothing matters more to me than the wellbeing of my family, and if I had to give up writing to see to that I would without a second's thought. Being a writer was once a dream. When it becomes a reality the magic gradually dissolves. My agent - a hard-headed but pricellessly realistic lady - said that only a small proportion of writers ever live off their earnings and that I should treat it as a supplement to my day job. It was good advice. Another piece of wisdom I heard somewhere was that writing was an affliction. I think that's true of every writer I've met. Since I've had an excuse to become a 'writer' it's possible that I see less of my family now than when I was working full-time and writing. It is a license to self-indulge and I would advise anyone to be wary of that.
I think it's a mistake to see writing as an escape from wage-slavery. At the end of the day you are still working for money, and right now, half way through my tenth book, it is very hard work. My advice, if I may, is to keep the job and continue to write as and when you can. Get the book to an agent, or even the first few chapters and a synopsis. If and when they get a deal for you, then be sure to continue working until the paperback royalties come in before even thinking of quitting. Bernard Cornwell, successful as he is, once told me that it was not until his fifth book came out in paperback that he earned a liveable wage. And Ian Rankin was on the verge of being dropped by his publisher when his sixth book won a major crime award and saved his career. Patrick O'brian had to wait until a dozen books were out before he made a living wage. The list goes on. Be careful. |
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Turretmuppet
Dinosaur
United Kingdom
396 Posts |
Posted - 04 June 2007 : 1:09:29 PM
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Mike, although you say you have a book on the go, do you want to drop out to write or just to drop out?
I don't write for a living, I draw. I consider myself very lucky because I've done the two 'jobs' in life I aspired to do. After briefly dabbling with the idea of being a fireman, age five, I wanted nothing more than to join the army, which I did at age seventeen with every intention of making it my career. But when it came to signing on the dotted line at eighteen i couldn't bring myself to commit to more than three years, but what a blissful three years they were, wrecking the German countryside in tanks.
I left the Army and went onto a Foundation course to pursue my other love and natural skill, drawing. Unfortunately, I was pushed towards Graphic Design because my illustration style was 'graphical' and not very popular at the time. So I ended up doing a degree course in design and getting a design job for five years. I hated it. The problem was it paid well and I had a mortgage etc Then I got a lucky break, the company decided to relocate and I didn't want to go with it, so took redundancy and the good thing was I had a years notice. I started to draw with a mind to picking up freelance work and then I got another lucky break, I answered an Ad in a trade journal and sent off the three sample pieces of work I had done, that was all I had, three samples. Based on these I won a huge contract to illustrate disply pieces for a children's museum. Not only was it a big wad of dosh, but I had an instant portfolio of published work to hawk around.
I've been illustrating for over fifteen years now, but will echo comments made by both Simon and Alex. Illustrating for me now is a job, nothing more. I can't remember the last time I did it for pleasure, I used to draw all the while, just because I could and I miss that. I would be quite happy to drop out again and leave all the deadlines behind. As Alex says, it can also go pear-shaped, in my case I had built up my business to a very comfortable turnover and then, three years ago I broke my back in a snowboarding accident, which rather put the cat amongst the pidgeons on the self employed front, as you can well imagine.
"He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!" |
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Parmenion
Homosapien
United Kingdom
13792 Posts |
Posted - 04 June 2007 : 1:14:51 PM
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ouch mate hows the back? have u recovered ok?
Centurion Parmenion
LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE
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Turretmuppet
Dinosaur
United Kingdom
396 Posts |
Posted - 04 June 2007 : 1:57:22 PM
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It's actually fine now, thanks Parm, but I can't snowboard again which is a real bummer :-(
"He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!" |
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mike
Dinosaur
United Kingdom
298 Posts |
Posted - 04 June 2007 : 2:05:47 PM
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"Mike, although you say you have a book on the go, do you want to drop out to write or just to drop out?"
To be honest I think it's the latter. I love books and would like to do something I love, but really I've had it with all the office politics, constant deadlines, travelling all round the country, all the backstabbing of who's up and who's down, fighting with our finance department for every nickle and dime, working 60 hour weeks every week.....you know how it is.
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Parmenion
Homosapien
United Kingdom
13792 Posts |
Posted - 04 June 2007 : 2:32:52 PM
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mate i know it only too well...i work in a dilbert environment, it drives me insane but until i have a viable alternative..here i remain
Centurion Parmenion
LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE
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Turretmuppet
Dinosaur
United Kingdom
396 Posts |
Posted - 04 June 2007 : 3:01:48 PM
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quote:
....you know how it is.
I do, and on a personal level I would 'retire' from society at the drop of a hat.
And if you want to drop out in style then this a pretty hard act to follow. Back in the 60's, aged 50, Dick Proenneke went into the Alaskan Wilderness and built a log cabin with the intention of staying a year and ended up being there for nigh on thirty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Proenneke
He filmed himself building the cabin and I stumbled across a documentary that was made using the footage on Google video. I was totally transfixed. Unfortunately it's been deleted but there is a bit of it here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y-SD5HXZyE
Can't quite imagine the wife and kids going for this though.
"He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!" |
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Ankhsy
Homosapien
United Kingdom
6986 Posts |
Posted - 04 June 2007 : 11:49:19 PM
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Mike, you are going through a mid-life crisis. Your life is about to change in a big way with the birth of your first child, and you find yourself re-examining the decisions you made earlier in life, re-evaluation your values. It is perfectly normal.
There is no easy solution. This is the time where you face up to the person you really are. This is what this sort of 'crisis' is all about. The good news is that at 37 you have a lot of life still to live. It isn't 'all change' now or never. The halfway solution is ask for a sabbatical. See if you can take a 6 months or 1 year off work. It's a common thing to do these days, and companies want to keep their good people and realise giving them a break will avoid losing them. Talk to your wife about the idea of a sabbatical. The last thing she wants no is a feeling of insecurity, but if you can reassure here that you aren't burning any bridges, she may be more supportive of a temporary change in circumstances to help you get through this. And you will. Good luck.
"We are Starfleet Officers, weird is part of the job."
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Edited by - Ankhsy on 05 June 2007 12:05:13 AM |
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mike
Dinosaur
United Kingdom
298 Posts |
Posted - 06 June 2007 : 6:50:01 PM
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| Thank you. |
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