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mike
Dinosaur
United Kingdom
298 Posts |
 Posted - 02 July 2007 : 7:19:57 PM
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In short, Napoleon claimed he was fighting for a united Europe, with a French led bureaucracy, based on meritocratic principles...
....while Wellington was fighting for the sovereign nation, class distinction and British might.
Who won? Look at the way the world is going?
Could it be argued that Wellington won the battle, but Napoleon won the war? A war that is only now coming to its conclusion?
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Nocoolname
Invertebrate
United Kingdom
160 Posts |
Posted - 02 July 2007 : 7:39:39 PM
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Both in small ways and neither entirely.
The EU is a mess because it's trying to be everything and as a result is achieving nothing save confusion and waste. Either we give up and go back to our own petty little states, much to our economic detriment or we go the whole hog and embrace a politically and economically unified Europe with a democtratically elected government, to the detriment of a few nationalistic foibles which, IMHO, are patently silly in any event.
As for class distiction, well Blair and now Brown have that one wrapped up with the home-owning class on one side and the rest of the country on the other. Bravo boys, bravo! |
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John Prigent
Homosapien
United Kingdom
8364 Posts |
Posted - 02 July 2007 : 7:42:03 PM
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Putting my Breton hat on, I would argue that France is not meritocratic. It is bureaucratic, with top politicians and civil servants largely coming from the Grandes Ecoles as an elite. An oligarcy, not a meritocracy, that is trying to drive the EU in the same direction. Do we get to vote for the Commissioners who ignore decisions by the European Parliament? No, of course not, they're appointed. By whom? Top politicians. So there is really no change from the old system of government by people chosen by the top politicans - then the current Louis, now a President, but no difference in actual fact.
Cheers
John
Captain, Star Fleet
"to boldly split infinitives that no man (or woman) has split before" |
Edited by - John Prigent on 02 July 2007 7:43:42 PM |
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Benreturns
Small mammal
United Kingdom
601 Posts |
Posted - 02 July 2007 : 7:43:01 PM
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Out of all honesty, I would rather live by Wellington's principle rather than that of Napoleon
We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be, detested in France. |
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mike
Dinosaur
United Kingdom
298 Posts |
Posted - 02 July 2007 : 7:50:01 PM
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What was Wellington's vision - restoration of the status quo?
I feel that Napoleon could think over much longer timeframes than Wellington. Didn't he once say that his reforms would be remembered long after his wars? Napoleon thought in terms of centuries - he at least had a vision whereas Wellington did not. |
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mike
Dinosaur
United Kingdom
298 Posts |
Posted - 02 July 2007 : 7:51:22 PM
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| OK, Wellington not having a vision was a bit extreme - but he was no visionary along the lines of Napoleon. |
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Benreturns
Small mammal
United Kingdom
601 Posts |
Posted - 02 July 2007 : 8:30:00 PM
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Napoleon's ideas were probably the basis for the EU.
We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be, detested in France. |
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Nocoolname
Invertebrate
United Kingdom
160 Posts |
Posted - 02 July 2007 : 8:54:09 PM
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Wellington not having a vision? Are you kidding? Without his vision of cheap affordable rubber boots thousands of people at Glastonbury would be forever afflicted by muddy feet!
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John Prigent
Homosapien
United Kingdom
8364 Posts |
Posted - 02 July 2007 : 9:00:49 PM
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Nice one, Nocool!
Cheers
John
Captain, Star Fleet
"to boldly split infinitives that no man (or woman) has split before" |
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Parmenion
Homosapien
United Kingdom
13792 Posts |
Posted - 02 July 2007 : 10:17:41 PM
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good god Nocool think of all that athletes foot!!! the HORROR!!!...the man was a visionary
Centurion Parmenion
LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE
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mike
Dinosaur
United Kingdom
298 Posts |
Posted - 02 July 2007 : 10:28:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Nocoolname
Wellington not having a vision? Are you kidding? Without his vision of cheap affordable rubber boots thousands of people at Glastonbury would be forever afflicted by muddy feet!
Can't argue with that. |
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Ankhsy
Homosapien
United Kingdom
6986 Posts |
Posted - 03 July 2007 : 10:30:50 AM
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Nice architecture in Paris, though.
"We are Starfleet Officers, weird is part of the job."
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Benreturns
Small mammal
United Kingdom
601 Posts |
Posted - 03 July 2007 : 4:00:18 PM
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yea, nocoolname has a good point
We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be, detested in France. |
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Nocoolname
Invertebrate
United Kingdom
160 Posts |
Posted - 03 July 2007 : 10:05:46 PM
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You know Parm, its funny you mention athletes foot because I was thinking back to when I was a kid before I knew what athletes foot was. I thought it meant fleet of foot and remember wishing I had a pair of the bleedin things. My mum soon put me straight.
Cheers |
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Benreturns
Small mammal
United Kingdom
601 Posts |
Posted - 04 July 2007 : 4:48:38 PM
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hahaha, an easy mistake to make!
We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be, detested in France. |
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Acamas
Single Cell Organism
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 21 July 2007 : 9:40:41 PM
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| America won guys. America won. Europe lost. |
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Simon Scarrow
Small mammal
Uruguay
764 Posts |
Posted - 21 July 2007 : 10:54:47 PM
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| Acamas, I'm sorry but I'm having trouble following the sense of your comments. Could you expand please? |
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Benreturns
Small mammal
United Kingdom
601 Posts |
Posted - 22 July 2007 : 09:48:44 AM
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yea, I agree Simon
We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be, detested in France. |
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Stomachus Grossus
Homosapien
United Kingdom
1847 Posts |
Posted - 23 July 2007 : 11:14:37 AM
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I think he is saying that America won the 'wars' and became and remains the main power.
Urino -are!!!!
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Acamas
Single Cell Organism
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 29 July 2007 : 12:11:24 AM
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| Yes. It was partially a joke as well. :D |
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Stomachus Grossus
Homosapien
United Kingdom
1847 Posts |
Posted - 30 July 2007 : 4:52:13 PM
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Afterall the french used the americans during the 1805 - 1814 period.
Urino -are!!!!
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Napoleon won
