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Ankhsy
Homosapien
United Kingdom
7861 Posts |
Posted - 27 August 2009 : 2:00:42 PM
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Te futueo.
Hmmmm, somehow it doesn't quite have the same ring in Latin.
Legum servi sumus ut liberi esse possimus. |
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Parmenion
Homosapien
United Kingdom
14676 Posts |
Posted - 27 August 2009 : 3:35:17 PM
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it does not have the same emphasis on it does it...no ooomph
Centurion Parmenion
LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE
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Bat King
Invertebrate
United Kingdom
169 Posts |
Posted - 31 August 2009 : 11:41:44 PM
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Interesting thread of conversation.
I'm a very low level swearer in public, and my pronunciation of 'bastard' when some upstart unit in Civilisation kills one of mine makes my son laugh.
However the usage in the series simply aids the authentic feel. The reason Simon doesn't use Latin swear words, one assumes, is the same as the reason that Latin in general is at a minimum - people as a rule don't know enough Latin. Yes I know some of you do, but I bet the average knowledge of Latin in the target audience is actually pretty low.
If anything I'd expect more complaints about the blood and gore - which I think Simon is probably taking pains to keep low. War then was rather a bloody passtime with the majority of wounded combatants bleeding slowly to death where they lay. So again, some gore is required.
I'd say a mature 11 year old is likely safe these books. Indeed a mature 11 year old should roll with the language and come out the other side unaffected. |
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steelski
Single Cell Organism
United Kingdom
35 Posts |
 Posted - 01 September 2009 : 12:09:59 AM
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As i started reading these books when i was young (and of course still am) i feel i need to reply to this. In my opinion the language is not a problem as everyone will learn the words at some point and it is then that individuals choice on how they use them. The gore is important, the books would not be very realistic if a battle started and then someone got 'stabbed and then they died, cato won'.
The younger audience will always be able to read books with this content even in school. After my efforts our school library purchased the full set of the Eagle series, i do not know if they have been read much but the point is people have access to them :)
Me, I'm dishonest, and you can always trust a dishonest man to be dishonest. Honestly, it's the honest ones you have to watch out for... |
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Bat King
Invertebrate
United Kingdom
169 Posts |
Posted - 01 September 2009 : 01:11:35 AM
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| He should be in bed! |
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Dave Slaney
Invertebrate
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 01 September 2009 : 9:26:41 PM
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I've found this thread very interesting and, although I thoroughly admire whoelsecs care for his son, I find it a little 'petty' to pick on such a small element of this classic series.
My son is 12 and would have no issue whatsoever with him reading the 'Eagles' series. The 'F' word purely accentuates the narrative and I would say is more than likely 'toned down' if anything. If I had a Blue Painted Briton charging down on me with an axe even the dreaded 'C' word would appear a trifle 'mild'.
Once my bowels had been evacuated the profanities I would scream would more than match his blue paint. The language is in no way gratuitous and I have found myself feeling rather 'protective' over our dear author.
I always think of the BBC's 'Points of View' where people torture themselves watching violent and gritty dramas purely so they can complain. That's why God invented remote controls so you can switch off or change channel. I know you can't do this with a book, put you could always close the cover and put it down. I know that is a very hard thing to do with a Scarrow book, but bite that lip and try.
As for 'lightweight' I shall forgive you only and I stress ONLY because you only got to page 15 and maybe haven't read the rest of the book or indeed the rest of the series.
I bought 'Gladiator' at the weekend and I want to start it SO bad, but part of me doesn't want to as it means I'll have to wait for the next.
Sitting down to the next 'Eagles' installment reminds me of Sir John Mills having THAT cold beer in 'Ice Cold In Alex', you sit and stare at the cover, licking your lips in anticipation....
Nectar...
Is there going to be any "Eagles' books? I sincerely hope so and all I can say is...
...thank f**k for that!!
Keep 'em coming sir :) |
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Fast Paul
Ape
United Kingdom
1006 Posts |
Posted - 02 September 2009 : 11:02:06 AM
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....what a great thread. And the laugh out loud moment came with wholesecc`s tounge in cheek comment (I think!) referencing his hope that Folletts Pillars of the Earth would move within reach of his son was priceless!....I`m assuming that the usage of the C word (male and female usage here!) littering Folletts work will be quite acceptable now! Breath a sigh of relief Simon and well converted! Better even than Johnny Wilkinsons world cup kick!
It`s true that opposite`s attract!
Thats why your surrounded by beautiful, intelligent, happy people! |
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Parmenion
Homosapien
United Kingdom
14676 Posts |
Posted - 02 September 2009 : 11:12:58 AM
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perhaps S****horpe is a permitted word its just the others that are verbotten!
Centurion Parmenion
LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE
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the_labrat
Single Cell Organism
Ireland
3 Posts |
Posted - 14 September 2009 : 01:27:10 AM
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i read Biggles books when i was 12. still do :)
if you ask me, characters cursing and blinding is a lot nicer than a main character who smokes like a chimney, and got into planes during the war after sinking a bottle of whiskey. Then there was the racist element. Nothing vicious, and intentional, but definately a sign of the times. you know, biggles saying to the black guy to get back to his master, or he'd flay the skin off his back etc. and generally calling them "darkies" and "savages". Its just the times really. Biggles was all quaint and old fashioned. but for everything that was great, you can see how it cam give people the wrong impression.
Macro and Cato? they swear like troopers. Do twelve year olds do that? Trust me, i did. Most people here did. And do. Christ, i can still turn the air blue if i need to.
Is it wrong, and could it be a problem? I dont think so, once you see it in the proper context and move on.
cheers |
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Peter Croft
Dinosaur
United Kingdom
363 Posts |
Posted - 14 September 2009 : 2:27:48 PM
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| I passed a crowd of schoolkids on the way to the railway station this morning. Looked to be no older than 12 or so, and the effing and blinding was quite shocking. On the other hand, that's no excuse not to try and restrict the use of bad language in inappropriate social situations. It's different with a book of course since nothing is said out loud and it is a private experience. So, I have no worries about swearing in books. Not all of them. I would hate to see it in early years books. As in: 'See spot jump, Jane. See spot jump. Can you see, Jane?' 'Of course I fucking can, you twat. I'm fucking standing next to the hairy little bleeder, innit.' Now that, I would prefer not to see. |
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Parmenion
Homosapien
United Kingdom
14676 Posts |
Posted - 14 September 2009 : 3:15:06 PM
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Its back to context, i have no issue with my son swearing, if he does it in context and uses the correct english to do so.
I hate it when he uses slang, eg: innit!, like! fing! etc..
LOL...i did like the peter and jane story though peter!!
next step would be adult rated Peter and Jane!...See Peter Jump jane, see jane get a good shagging!...etc.. LOL!! giving sex education these days who knows..!!
Centurion Parmenion
LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE
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Decurion
Single Cell Organism
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 15 September 2009 : 6:17:28 PM
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Same with my daughter. While now technically an adult, she still uses profanity the way a fine swordsman uses a blade. To quickly cut to a solution. As I taught her. It has a time and place, even in "civilized" company.
ALEA IACTA EST
Skype @ james_conaway |
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Scout13
Single Cell Organism
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 21 September 2009 : 02:58:28 AM
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I know I am jumping in a bit late here, did I read this thread right?
It seems that wholesecc was a bit unhappy about BAD words and took a few jabs (to say the very least) at the Eagle series and Simons writing style. After a few flurries back and forth his son now loves the books and he is going to read them. That change of tune came kinda quick, or am I missing something. Typical!!
I have always admired the no bullshit way of the UK. This type of meaningless attack is quite typical of my country. It is very upsetting for me to see that here on this forum. It is bad enough to have to deal with it on a regular basis during our daily lives, but now it creeps into hobbies and things that bring us away from that kind of crap. Is it OK to say crap?? ( I dont want to offend). Has anyone ever had the feeling that your having every bit of enjoyment squeezed from your body by people that are offended by everything. If I dont like a book, I dont buy it. If a person says things I dont like, I leave, If I dont like the food, I dont eat it. I would never dream of telling the person who wrote the book to change it, I would never tell the person saying things I dont like, to say it different and I certainly would not tell the chef how to cook his (OOPS) or her food.
I am a retired SWAT officer here in Central NY USA and I love your books Simon. You are a GREAT story teller and bring much joy to your fans. You bring a perfect realism to all you books (even with those BAD words).
I am sorry that I rambled on a bit, but life in the USA is changing and I am not sure for the better. Everything you do or say is subject to offense and you can not hide, it lurks around every corner.
Should I put a disclaimer on this? I do not want to offend any readers.
-Randy
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Parmenion
Homosapien
United Kingdom
14676 Posts |
Posted - 21 September 2009 : 11:18:53 AM
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Randy...Ilike you...welcome..please stay!
We tend to prefer the honest no bull approach, all being sick of the PC health and safety world we live in, for example a bag a penuts with "Caution may contain nuts on it" aggghh!!
So stay and speak your mind!
Centurion Parmenion
LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE
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Decurion
Single Cell Organism
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 21 September 2009 : 6:42:16 PM
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Scout13: Hooah. Well said. As a radio host here puts it. "The pleasure police are always on watch to take away the joys in your life!"
ALEA IACTA EST
Skype @ james_conaway |
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Scout13
Single Cell Organism
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 23 September 2009 : 04:11:50 AM
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Thanks for the welcome guys!!
Parm, It's funny you mention peanuts...lol!!! Do you know that I could not send my son to school in 6th grade with a peanut butter and jelly sandwich because a third grade student had an allergy to peanuts and the mother complained. She said that residue may get on the table her daughter sat at during lunch. This is a private school that charges $5000.00 a year tuition
Was her daughter licking tables, I dont know!! Would it not have been better to make a selected peanut free table, as to not effect the entire student body, maybe I am CRAZY!!
It's getting NUT'S out there, much pun intended!
I live to read Simons books on Rome, and there are many, many fans here in the USA. It just chaps me to see him called a "Lightweight Writer" I am not sure what his motivation was in this whole drama but the change over took place pretty fast, leads me to believe that he just wanted attention from Simon, as to convince him that his books are good, almost like Simon was doing him a favor. Does that make sense to anyone??
-Randy
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Scout13
Single Cell Organism
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 23 September 2009 : 04:15:29 AM
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Thanks for the welcome guys!!
Parm, It's funny you mention peanuts...lol!!! Do you know that I could not send my son to school in 6th grade with a peanut butter and jelly sandwich because a third grade student had an allergy to peanuts and the mother complained. She said that residue may get on the table her daughter sat at during lunch. This is a private school that charges $5000.00 a year tuition
Was her daughter licking tables, I dont know!! Would it not have been better to make a selected peanut free table, as to not effect the entire student body, maybe I am CRAZY!!
It's getting NUT'S out there, much pun intended!
I live to read Simons books on Rome, and there are many, many fans here in the USA. It just chaps me to see him called a "Lightweight Writer" I am not sure what his motivation was in this whole drama but the change over took place pretty fast, leads me to believe that he just wanted attention from Simon, as to convince him that his books are good, almost like Simon was doing him a favor. Does that make sense to anyone??
-Randy
-Randy |
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Scout13
Single Cell Organism
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 23 September 2009 : 04:38:26 AM
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Also:
I did not realize until Simon said that the US editor droped him when Roman/Jewish history started in the books. No wonder I can not find anything past Sand. Again, I use the word "Typical"
Simon, How does that make you feel?? about the USA?? I am very curius to here your honest opinion. Or anyone from the UK.
-Randy
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Parmenion
Homosapien
United Kingdom
14676 Posts |
Posted - 23 September 2009 : 09:19:22 AM
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I think its bonkers, i have been to the states a few times now, and quite like it, its very very different from the UK, but my god its soo bloody insular.
The news is ALL about that area they hardly touch anything outside and when they do its only US, they barely touch world news.
Weather is local weather not national or world
So are we suprosed that the US is slowly closing its borders? isnt the stat that only 10% of americans have passports? i know the USA is huge but come on, the world is bigger, and there is so much more culture out there than US culture.
As to Simons books, thats the church, the country is slowly being taken over by the damn thing, if the borders do shut down it will be because a some right wing religious nut gets into office and closes the border and kicks out all non christians...it sounds far fetched...but is it??
AL: there is a book in there somewhere! LOL!!
Centurion Parmenion
LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE
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Ankhsy
Homosapien
United Kingdom
7861 Posts |
Posted - 23 September 2009 : 10:50:33 AM
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There is a tradition of anti-intellectualism in the USA. They miss out on global knowledge because Americans are egocentric. They believe that the world revolves around the USA and that nothing else matters. To a large extent this is the fault of their education philosophy which centres on memorisation and regurgitation, rather than being educated in analytical skills and problem solving. I know; I was part of that system and I see the same in my nieces and nephews who continue to be educated in the American system.
Here is a very good article on the decline of academia in the USA and how this endangers America's relationship with the rest of the world. http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/241.html
Legum servi sumus ut liberi esse possimus. |
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Scout13
Single Cell Organism
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 23 September 2009 : 1:02:50 PM
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Great points!
I served my country for many years, and I can honestly say that a heart never beat that was more proud to be an American. For some time now, maybe 3 to 4 years ( It's very hard for me to say this) I am very unhappy with the egotistical people and the political agendas. For the first time in my life I understand why the USA is looked at badly. Dont get me wrong, I love my country and always will!! I am kinda speechless about the whole matter. It's like being in a dark room and not knowing the way out.
It's a shame!!
-Randy |
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Parmenion
Homosapien
United Kingdom
14676 Posts |
Posted - 23 September 2009 : 1:44:36 PM
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Not knocking american pride, one thing i think we have gone to far away from is a sense of national pride, over here you get called racist if you fly the flag, like your the member of the facist party.
And there have been instances where returing soldiers (deceased) in their hearses) have been locked in traffic jams and abused by drivers, when they should be shown respect.
all things that you guys seem to get right. or at least thats the impression we get over here.
it seems we cant meet in the middle we as nations have to go to opposite extremes.
Centurion Parmenion
LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE
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Scout13
Single Cell Organism
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 24 September 2009 : 11:01:46 PM
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Parm,
You are quite right and I was unaware of the problems with your soldiers. That leaves me speechless. Not sure what to say, It just goes to show that in this very advanced age we live in (tech and educational speaking) we seem to not be much further along then the people of the dark age, we just put on a better show of it!!! (sometimes)
I always say that I was born completely in the wrong time. I should have been born about 2000 years ago where strength and honor was a manditory part of life to make something of yourself.
Quite a sad state of affairs!!
-Randy
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Decurion
Single Cell Organism
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 26 September 2009 : 5:10:42 PM
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Folks, we may want to start a different thread for this current discussion. (I know I am just as guilty, having contributed to it) we are veering off of the point by quite a bit.
ALEA IACTA EST
Skype @ james_conaway |
Edited by - Decurion on 26 September 2009 5:11:13 PM |
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Parmenion
Homosapien
United Kingdom
14676 Posts |
Posted - 26 September 2009 : 6:25:56 PM
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i would not worry about it mate...we never stick on topic here...
Centurion Parmenion
LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE
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Decurion
Single Cell Organism
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 27 September 2009 : 5:26:42 PM
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Okay. Did not know how strict the topic rules were. I am sure we have all been on those forums were deviation is punishable by death! :)
ALEA IACTA EST
Skype @ james_conaway |
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Nísia
Small mammal
Portugal
773 Posts |
Posted - 27 September 2009 : 7:10:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Decurion
I am sure we have all been on those forums were deviation is punishable by death! :)
Foda-se!!
(As you see, if you could write in a foreign language there are no harm because no one understand, cof, cof  ) 
"Ars Longa, Vita Brevis"
http://pwp.netcabo.pt/0165818901/index.html |
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Decurion
Single Cell Organism
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 28 September 2009 : 12:57:03 AM
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Mas eu faço nem mesmo o conheça!
That translate OK?
:)
ALEA IACTA EST
Skype @ james_conaway |
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Ankhsy
Homosapien
United Kingdom
7861 Posts |
Posted - 28 September 2009 : 10:53:29 AM
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Que cabrones es eso?
Legum servi sumus ut liberi esse possimus. |
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Scout13
Single Cell Organism
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 28 September 2009 : 3:45:53 PM
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Sorry Decurion, got carried away. Emotional release! I do think, in a round about way, it does pertain to this thread. So I guess I am guilty of the "Death Sentence".
Do I get a last request??? Anybody got a smoke and blindfold???? |
Edited by - Scout13 on 28 September 2009 4:02:59 PM |
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Can you write a book without saying ****?
