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The Delayer
Dinosaur
United Kingdom
260 Posts |
 Posted - 05 July 2009 : 7:20:17 PM
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Ok not sure if this is the right forum or not but
In the film the Patriot the villian Tavington is ment to be losely based on Banastre Tarleton. And normally Americans claim he was just as (really really) bad in real life.
Found this website on him and he could not be more different from either the film or what Americans say about him. This site that covers his history extensivley and in reality he was a brilliant counter insurgency soldier who played them at there own game. Should note this was also done by an American too so there can be no claims of bias.
http://home.golden.net/~marg/bansite/_entry.html
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Edited by - The Delayer on 05 July 2009 7:21:24 PM |
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Parmenion
Homosapien
United Kingdom
14676 Posts |
Posted - 05 July 2009 : 7:47:00 PM
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...the patriot is a pile of bilge cretaed by Mel Gibson who is a brit hatin bigot!
Centurion Parmenion
LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE
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The Delayer
Dinosaur
United Kingdom
260 Posts |
Posted - 05 July 2009 : 8:26:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Parmenion
...the patriot is a pile of bilge cretaed by Mel Gibson who is a brit hatin bigot!
Centurion Parmenion
LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE
Agreed but if you go on amazon.com's reviews youll see many saying we won brits need to get over it/ Brits were evil in those days etc. This thankfully shows a much interesting and different charachter. Hell Simon could make a great book about him if he was tempted. |
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Parmenion
Homosapien
United Kingdom
14676 Posts |
Posted - 05 July 2009 : 8:58:46 PM
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the problem is, is gibson prtrayed this film as factual, and so a whole generation of yanks probably left the cinema thinking this as how things were, and think we are whinging brits...where as i think the yanks actually burt the church down etc...whole the brits were no saints we were not the evil feckers gibson makes us into, and history is not what he shapes...
Centurion Parmenion
LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE
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Coritanian
Homosapien
United Kingdom
2031 Posts |
Posted - 06 July 2009 : 4:25:17 PM
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It works the other way too. Hollywood will not allow Americans to be shown badly or being beaten. For example: Master and Commander. Yes, fair enough, any film where we're beating the French gets my vote, but the books that the film is based on was set during the war of 1812, which we fought against America. But we can't have the Yanks being beaten on film by the Brits now, can we ?!
So when the centurion and those with him, who were guarding Jesus, saw the earthquake and the things that had happened, they feared greatly, saying, “Truly this was the Son of God!”
Matthew 27:54 |
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Mace
Small mammal
United Kingdom
738 Posts |
Posted - 07 July 2009 : 1:04:26 PM
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How dare you???
Are you seriuosly trying to say the Braveheart was an overly simplified and anti-english film, bearing little or no resemblance to historical evidance?
Everyone up here in Scotland now know that Wallace was a short a*se, well eduacted commaner, not a rebelious knight that so called evidence made him out to be. We now know that he boned the Princess of Wales, and although so called mathematics would have made her around 9 at the time, we know she was actually an itellegent and hot young lady.
stop trying to find fault with historic films using your 'book' and 'evidance'.
The English suck, Gibson knows it, and he's only doing the world a service by putting those facts on screen.
"My Mom says I'm cool"
Millhouse. |
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Beerswimmer
Invertebrate
USA
119 Posts |
Posted - 14 July 2009 : 05:23:31 AM
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UT ALII VIVANT!!!
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.” Theodore Roosevelt |
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Coritanian
Homosapien
United Kingdom
2031 Posts |
Posted - 14 July 2009 : 6:49:25 PM
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Erm.... are you sure you're in the right thread, Beerswimmer? The Quotes link is elsewhere.
So when the centurion and those with him, who were guarding Jesus, saw the earthquake and the things that had happened, they feared greatly, saying, “Truly this was the Son of God!”
Matthew 27:54 |
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Beerswimmer
Invertebrate
USA
119 Posts |
Posted - 14 July 2009 : 9:11:49 PM
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It's my sig. I was just smiling at the thread!
UT ALII VIVANT!!!
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.” Theodore Roosevelt |
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Mace
Small mammal
United Kingdom
738 Posts |
Posted - 14 July 2009 : 9:41:31 PM
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He's agreeing with me (and Mad Max).
"My Mom says I'm cool"
Millhouse. |
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Carus Andiae
Small mammal
United Kingdom
722 Posts |
Posted - 17 July 2009 : 08:13:34 AM
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I remember a newspaper article from when it first came out. Apparently the Gibson character was originally going to be an historical figure (forget who, but a well known Revolutionary hero) but further research proved him to be a ghastly individual who carried out a string a war crimes.
'British' troops did carry out atrocities but they were almost universally by Loyalist troops in the war in the south, which was particularly brutal with neither side coming out of it with much credit. But they wouldn't want to show Loyalist troops - not only would they be Americans doing Bad Things but it might give away that an estimate 40% of Americans under arms were fighting for Britain!
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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxem immane mittam. |
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Simon Scarrow
Ape
Uruguay
1048 Posts |
Posted - 17 July 2009 : 10:33:04 AM
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| The film, and indeed much of the mythology surrounding the American Revolution, tends to overlook the fact that the struggle was as much between classes as it was between the colonists and England. When I studied this at university it was quite striking how much of the motivation of participants was expressed in such terms. However, once the war was over the ruling classes moved very quickly to suppress those who had been promised so much. No surprises there of course. Look what happened to the levellers and diggers after the English Revolution. A film that did make some attempt to grapple with this is Revolution starring Al Pacino. For my money a far better film than Mad BigMax Mel's measly effort. |
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The Delayer
Dinosaur
United Kingdom
260 Posts |
Posted - 18 July 2009 : 11:52:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Simon Scarrow
The film, and indeed much of the mythology surrounding the American Revolution, tends to overlook the fact that the struggle was as much between classes as it was between the colonists and England. When I studied this at university it was quite striking how much of the motivation of participants was expressed in such terms. However, once the war was over the ruling classes moved very quickly to suppress those who had been promised so much. No surprises there of course. Look what happened to the levellers and diggers after the English Revolution. A film that did make some attempt to grapple with this is Revolution starring Al Pacino. For my money a far better film than Mad BigMax Mel's measly effort.
It was never about class Simon. Most of the Revolutionaries were slaver owners. The guy who declared Give me Liberty of Death while he was giving that speech his slaves were escaping to British lines and Freedom. Indeed the British freed the slaves which lost a lot of support in the south |
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Simon Scarrow
Ape
Uruguay
1048 Posts |
Posted - 18 July 2009 : 3:25:16 PM
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| Well, I think you might want to have another look at the Revolution, delayer. Edward Countryman has written well about the social aspects of the revolution and is very convincing in his thesis about the counter-revolution that was required to recover the newly independent nation from the clutches of the radicals. You can't simply reduce this to the issue of slavery. The colonial society and the tensions that divided it were far more complex than you allow. |
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The Patriot The reality behind the film
