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CTL666
Invertebrate
United Kingdom
62 Posts |
 Posted - 11 October 2009 : 3:33:16 PM
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Assuming you've read the book and realised just how plausible the scenario is, have you made any changes to your life as a result?
Have you, for instance:
Started or expanded a store of food, water and/or other supplies?
Installed a method of powering your home which does not require the main grid?
Worked out a disaster recovery plan?
Arranged with your family a place to meet if things go wrong?
Sorted out some form of alternative communication - CB's, walkie talkies or something else?
Learned how to do things in the old ways?
Begun growing some of your own food?
Or something else?
If some big disaster means that you have to survive on your own for an extended period, how ready are you to do that and how much of an influence was the book on your decision to prepare?
D.
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CTL666
Invertebrate
United Kingdom
62 Posts |
Posted - 13 October 2009 : 01:33:48 AM
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Wow. Not one single person with anything to say. 
D.
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Edited by - CTL666 on 13 October 2009 01:34:18 AM |
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scarrow
Forum Admin
587 Posts |
Posted - 13 October 2009 : 08:47:36 AM
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I used to get that kind of response when I started talking PO at parties. It's a bit of a downer. Truth is the world needs some kind of cathartic event before habits change, whether it's PO or global warming, or Peak Water, or overpopulation, or a virulent disease, or an Iranian HEMP device that shorts out the world electricity, or whatever.
It was a very odd thing, I attended a meeting of PO activists last year and the pervading attitude of this little gathering was one of gleeful anticipation of PO's arrival. They simply couldn't wait for it to happen (they didn't say that openly, of course but it came out in the excited way they discussed their preparations). Even as an advocate for PO theory, I found that rather unsettling. Personally, I love our privileged lifestyle and really don't want it to change! And the only way we will be able to preserve this kind of lifestyle is by making sensible lifestyle alterations now.
But sadly we won't. And when whatever crisis eventually hits us - the most likely crisis to hit first are finite resource Vs exponential population ones - it'll be a tough time to live in.
My advice...don't have kids. |
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CTL666
Invertebrate
United Kingdom
62 Posts |
Posted - 13 October 2009 : 11:00:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by scarrow
I used to get that kind of response when I started talking PO at parties. It's a bit of a downer. Truth is the world needs some kind of cathartic event before habits change, whether it's PO or global warming, or Peak Water, or overpopulation, or a virulent disease, or an Iranian HEMP device that shorts out the world electricity, or whatever.
I have found that the vast majority of people simply don't believe that anything "bad" either could or is going to happen - to them. Disasters only effect other people in other countries. Over here "we'll" be clever, rich or powerful enough to avoid any sort of unpleasantness, therefore there is no reason to prepare or to even think about the possibility of needing to. It's the ostrich effect.
What I don't understand is that people accept the need for insurance and willingly pay out for it for years on end without a second thought, but suggest that they consider a few basic survival preparations in the same light and their eyes glaze over.
Perhaps we've had it too easy for too long. People don't realise how vulnerable they are any more, so they don't feel the need to put protection in place.
quote:
Originally posted by scarrow
It was a very odd thing, I attended a meeting of PO activists last year and the pervading attitude of this little gathering was one of gleeful anticipation of PO's arrival. They simply couldn't wait for it to happen (they didn't say that openly, of course but it came out in the excited way they discussed their preparations). Even as an advocate for PO theory, I found that rather unsettling.
Yes, I've seen that quite a lot. I think a big part of it is that even though they've recognised the threat, they haven't fully thought through what it would mean to have to go back to a pre-tech age. There's also the "ya boo sucks to you" element where they want their chance to stick two fingers up to all those who called them nutters for even thinking about this stuff.
quote:
Originally posted by scarrow
Personally, I love our privileged lifestyle and really don't want it to change! And the only way we will be able to preserve this kind of lifestyle is by making sensible lifestyle alterations now.
But sadly we won't.
Agreed. Where are the 12 when we need them, eh? 
Seriously though, people aren't going to change until they are made to. I'd prefer if someone in power was the motivating force, but I suspect it will some long term disaster that will end up doing so and then it'll probably be too late to preserve our current standard of life.
quote:
Originally posted by scarrow
And when whatever crisis eventually hits us - the most likely crisis to hit first are finite resource Vs exponential population ones - it'll be a tough time to live in.
My advice...don't have kids.
The UN food agency have just said that food production will have to rise by around 70% within the next 40 years to cope with the needs of the increasing population. Add to that the demands for living space, water, power and other resources and the future isn't looking too rosy. I suspect we are going to see more and more wars which, although they will be blamed on anything but, will be about resources. Maybe GW Bush & Co. were actually way ahead of the rest of us and were just getting in early - or perhaps things are going to get rough a lot sooner than anyone wants to admit? Either way, I agree. No kids.
D.
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Parmenion
Homosapien
United Kingdom
14670 Posts |
Posted - 16 October 2009 : 4:59:05 PM
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i had not had a chance to respond as i was getting ready to go and then on holiday.
I have changed some of what i do, i try to buy local where i can, my car choice is as green as is practical, and i get involved with environmental stuff at work.
i try to make others aware of what i have leaned, and all of that stemmed from alex and his soap box.
Centurion Parmenion
LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE
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CTL666
Invertebrate
United Kingdom
62 Posts |
Posted - 16 October 2009 : 8:42:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Parmenion
I have changed some of what i do, i try to buy local where i can, my car choice is as green as is practical, and i get involved with environmental stuff at work.
i try to make others aware of what i have leaned, and all of that stemmed from alex and his soap box.
Aside from the possible long term aspect of helping the planet, have you done anything more immediate? If things were to go belly up tomorrow, have you made any arrangements to help you survive it?
D.
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Parmenion
Homosapien
United Kingdom
14670 Posts |
Posted - 16 October 2009 : 9:37:44 PM
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no bunker building, or fod hoarding. but i will head for ankhsys house, down to the coast and over to alderney
Centurion Parmenion
LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE
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CTL666
Invertebrate
United Kingdom
62 Posts |
Posted - 16 October 2009 : 9:44:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Parmenion
no bunker building, or fod hoarding.
What would you class as hoarding? Does a weeks worth qualify? Two weeks? A month's worth?
D.
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Parmenion
Homosapien
United Kingdom
14670 Posts |
Posted - 16 October 2009 : 10:29:05 PM
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more than you can keep without wasting food. so nothing goes out of date and gets wasted, the problem these days is dates, things go out of dates so fast.
Centurion Parmenion
LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE
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CTL666
Invertebrate
United Kingdom
62 Posts |
Posted - 16 October 2009 : 11:18:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Parmenion
more than you can keep without wasting food. so nothing goes out of date and gets wasted, the problem these days is dates, things go out of dates so fast.
You do realise that most of those dates are a con, don't you? They're there to ensure you keep buying more of the product and getting rid of the older version. They aren't, as most people think, because the food suddenly goes bad after that date. In general, most tinned goods are fine and perfectly edible for a decade or so after production. Obviously fresh or lightly packaged foods will have a shorter life, but it is down to common sense to work that out rather than to slavishly believe a marketing tool.
D.
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Parmenion
Homosapien
United Kingdom
14670 Posts |
Posted - 17 October 2009 : 09:57:15 AM
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oh im not one to throw something out 2 days after the sell by date, but at the same time, a few months later..im not one to risk it, i can afford it and i dont trust the cheap barstewards who make it.
maybe i should just buy a box full of MRE's and stash them in the attic. and add a case of water purifiers..LOL
Centurion Parmenion
LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE
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stuartr
Single Cell Organism
32 Posts |
Posted - 17 October 2009 : 10:11:05 AM
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Re Dates on products
Part of the problem is a lack of understanding, and the way testing has to happen
BBE (Best Before End) dates aren't the same as Use By Dates, but suggest that the product is BEST before a set date, they are still pefectly safe to eat for a while following the BBE date but may start to deteriorate (e.g. Breakfast Cereals start to lose their crunch etc.)
Also with quite long BBE dates (e.g. 12 months) it is quite difficult to test this without keeping packs sitting around for long periods of time, so most food manufacturers use a process called accelrated testing,which is designedto yield results much quicker, but clearly this can't replicate exact conditions found in the home.
You would also be amazed by the complaints that most food manufacturers receive, some of which are real, but a significant amount of which are sent in by people who clearly have nothing better to do, or those who are serial complainers in the hope of getting freebies out of companies. I am aware of people who sent the same complaint demanding payment for dental treatment to 3 or 4 different companies forthe same issue.
Pack Sizes will also make a difference to BBE dates, for instance Sugar Puffs (made by the company I work for) have a shelf life of 12 months in the normal sized packs, but 18 months in the single serve 25g pack. The reason for this is quite simple, the speed of deterioration in the product accelerates once the pack in opened, so in single serve packs this is not an issue.
The other thing to bear in mind is that often by the time the product reaches the consumer, it could have been sitting with the retailer for an extended period of time, this is particularly true with smaller corner shops etc.
But is is true to say that throwing out food just because it has reached its BBE date is a waste, if people only used common senseand their sight and snse of smell they would realise that often it is perfectly safe.
quote:
Originally posted by CTL666
quote:
Originally posted by Parmenion
more than you can keep without wasting food. so nothing goes out of date and gets wasted, the problem these days is dates, things go out of dates so fast.
You do realise that most of those dates are a con, don't you? They're there to ensure you keep buying more of the product and getting rid of the older version. They aren't, as most people think, because the food suddenly goes bad after that date. In general, most tinned goods are fine and perfectly edible for a decade or so after production. Obviously fresh or lightly packaged foods will have a shorter life, but it is down to common sense to work that out rather than to slavishly believe a marketing tool.
D.
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Edited by - stuartr on 17 October 2009 10:54:45 AM |
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stuartr
Single Cell Organism
32 Posts |
Posted - 17 October 2009 : 10:24:50 AM
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No to most of the list,
we do however have a decent sized veg patch, and grow a fair amount of our own fruit & veg. This year for instance we have had
Strawberries, Raspberries, Apples, Plums, Spuds (loads of), Onions, Garlic, Lettuce, Carrots, Beetroot, Corgettes, Cucumbers, Tomatoes, Sage, Thyme, Parsley, Rosemary and probably some other stuff I have forgotten.
In terms of Power, living where we do we are used to power cuts ranging from a few seconds to up to 12 hours, so we have a reasonable supply of torches around the house,along with plenty of candles etc. In addition until things get realy cold, we don't bother with the central heating, instead relying on a log fire and have a log shed with enough wood to last most of the winter.
Having said all that I would find the lack of internet to be a pain.... 
quote:
Originally posted by CTL666
Assuming you've read the book and realised just how plausible the scenario is, have you made any changes to your life as a result?
Have you, for instance:
Started or expanded a store of food, water and/or other supplies?
Installed a method of powering your home which does not require the main grid?
Worked out a disaster recovery plan?
Arranged with your family a place to meet if things go wrong?
Sorted out some form of alternative communication - CB's, walkie talkies or something else?
Learned how to do things in the old ways?
Begun growing some of your own food?
Or something else?
If some big disaster means that you have to survive on your own for an extended period, how ready are you to do that and how much of an influence was the book on your decision to prepare?
D.
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Edited by - stuartr on 17 October 2009 10:56:03 AM |
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CTL666
Invertebrate
United Kingdom
62 Posts |
Posted - 17 October 2009 : 12:36:23 PM
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That's a good list of foods you've grown there. Do you also do the next step - save and grow from your own seeds? Is your gardening/growing a self-sufficient procedure or do you need to buy in fertilisers, chemicals etc. from elsewhere?
The batteries in your torches, are they rechargeable? If so, how do you recharge them? Do you require mains power for that? If not, how long would your supply last if you have nothing beyond a few candles as an alternative to torches?
D.
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stuartr
Single Cell Organism
32 Posts |
Posted - 17 October 2009 : 5:54:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CTL666
That's a good list of foods you've grown there. Do you also do the next step - save and grow from your own seeds? Is your gardening/growing a self-sufficient procedure or do you need to buy in fertilisers, chemicals etc. from elsewhere?
The batteries in your torches, are they rechargeable? If so, how do you recharge them? Do you require mains power for that? If not, how long would your supply last if you have nothing beyond a few candles as an alternative to torches?
D.
Re Fertilzer - how topical - a couple of weeks ago I paid 20 quid for a trailer full (and I mean a big trailer) of well rotted Pig muck, as the tractor couldn't get around the back he had to dump it on the front verge, so the last couple of weekends have involved wheeling loads of pig muck to where I need it.  Such is the country life I guess.
On a side issue - found two grass snakes while moving the pig muck - they like compost heaps so a large pile of pig shit is right up their street 
I also forgot to mention the 3 chickens that we also have, so eggs aren't a problem. Next summer we will be adding a bee hive or two, so its fast turning into an episode of The Good Life
The batteries aren't rechargeable, but we also have a couple of paraffin lamps and a supply of paraffin.
Its not that we are planning for major issues with Power (although give it a few years, as it seems to be an increasing issue), but we are used to having a slightly unreliable power supply given the rural location and everything being via overhead cables |
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Has Last Light made you change your life?
