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Alex Scarrow
Ape
969 Posts |
 Posted - 06 October 2006 : 5:43:08 PM
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Not being particularly historically-minded...I just noticed some reference to dates, where previously the year might have been referred to as say...34 AD, it is now referred to as 34 CE.
For example, on this timeline http://www.mapsofwar.com/index.html you can see the timeline extents ar 3000 BCE ----- 2006 CE
Can anyone tell me what BCE and CE stands for?...I suppose specifically it's the 'E' bit I'm puzzled by.
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Carus Andiae
Small mammal
United Kingdom
667 Posts |
Posted - 06 October 2006 : 6:12:19 PM
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It's been around for a while now - 'Common Era' and 'Before Common Era'. It's supposed to be more socially inclusive, but since the 'Common Era' is still dated from the supposed birth of Christ I'm not sure if it really is.
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"Licat volare si super tergum aquila volat" - Any man can fly when he rides on the back of an eagle |
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andyana
Invertebrate
United Kingdom
56 Posts |
Posted - 06 October 2006 : 6:14:45 PM
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| I think it's political correctness - as BC and AD have Christian connotations, being associated with Jesus' birth and all, it was felt by the powers-that-be that this would offend non-Christians. However, as BC and AD have proven so successful, they just changed the names around. To all intents and purposes, they are one and the same. |
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Stomachus Grossus
Homosapien
United Kingdom
1860 Posts |
Posted - 06 October 2006 : 6:20:05 PM
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Strange really as the Moslems believe in Jesus
Urino -are!!!!
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Nísia
Small mammal
Portugal
661 Posts |
Posted - 06 October 2006 : 7:15:36 PM
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That's for me it's new!!!! In my country, as far as I know, it's BC (AC) and AC (DC). In () i't in my own language. |
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Parmenion
Homosapien
United Kingdom
13892 Posts |
Posted - 06 October 2006 : 7:22:08 PM
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madness i say madness!!
LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE
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John Prigent
Homosapien
United Kingdom
8414 Posts |
Posted - 06 October 2006 : 7:48:19 PM
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The whole BCE/CE thing is political correctness, dreamt up to placate militant atheists who deny that Jesus existed, and Moslems who use their own calendar anyway. Since it is politially correct I refuse to use it.
Cheers
John |
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Nísia
Small mammal
Portugal
661 Posts |
Posted - 06 October 2006 : 10:19:41 PM
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| The most funny, it's Jesus didn't birth in the year had been designated to begin the time. Scientists had found Jesus must born 2 years later, because that time had been visible in the sky a comet who could be the king's star. |
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John Prigent
Homosapien
United Kingdom
8414 Posts |
Posted - 06 October 2006 : 11:06:13 PM
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That's the usual conclusion, though some point to a planetary conjunction that would have been unusually bright and might have been the guiding star - I don't remember which year that was in. The truth is that no-one knows either the year or the date. Though it has often been suggested that shepherds abiding in the fields with their flocks in December would have been looking at frozen mutton - and have been frozen solid themselves. I've no idea how cold it gets around Bethlehem in December, so don't know if that is true or not. It's also said that Augustus didn't decree a census anywhere around the "right" year; I suspect a local census was decided upon, that wouldn't feature in the records in Rome.
Cheers
John |
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Coritanian
Homosapien
United Kingdom
1877 Posts |
Posted - 06 October 2006 : 11:26:47 PM
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| I've heard that Herod the great didn't die until about 4BC, so Jesus must have been around sometime before this date. |
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Carus Andiae
Small mammal
United Kingdom
667 Posts |
Posted - 07 October 2006 : 09:42:52 AM
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Yup. Herod the Great died in 4BC, but Publius Sulpicius Quirinius, the Roman Governor of Syria that St Luke mentions as a dating point, didn't take up the post until c.AD6. Some, attempting to reconcile the dates, have suggested that Luke confused Quirinius with his predecessor Publius Quinctilius Varus, but it seems unlikely that Luke, who from the quality of his Greek was clearly a highly educated man, would confuse a nomen with a cognomen; besides, it's unlikely he'd make a mistake about Varus - it's the same one who lost the three legions in the Teutoberg Disaster.
So it's a puzzle. It's possible that Luke got the wrong Herod (there were rather a lot of them about) but that Jesus was born in the reign of Herod the Great is verified, apparently independantly, by Matthew's Gospel.
In any case, it's all the fault of Dionysius Exiguus, who invented the system but messed up the calculations.
Actually, I would have thought AD/BC was more likely to upset Jews, since 'Christ' is synonymous with 'Messiah', and the dating system inplies (even if it doesn't specifically state) that Jesus was the Messiah.
Anyway, I'm sticking to BC/AD. Or maybe we should go back to ab urbe condita (auc), the old Roman system. In which case this year is auc2759.
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"Licat volare si super tergum aquila volat" - Any man can fly when he rides on the back of an eagle |
Edited by - Carus Andiae on 07 October 2006 09:46:53 AM |
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Ankhsy
Homosapien
United Kingdom
7087 Posts |
Posted - 07 October 2006 : 1:37:03 PM
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The terms BCE and AC have been around since my university days when historians preferred top distance themselves fronm religion, specially my lot which specialised in biblical, Egyptian, and Mesopotamian history. BCE originally meant 'before christian era'. however, when it became generally accepted amongst historians that the year 1AD did not start with the birth of Christ, the terminology changed to 'before common era'. That itself is a load of rubbish because 'common' is relative. IMY, it should remain 'christian' if one is to continue using the Gregorian calendar.
Jesus was most probably born in 6/5BCE in the endyears of Herod the Great (37-4BCE). Jesus' early childhood coincided with quarrels about the succcession of Herod, and Augustus divided Herod's holdings amongst his sons in 4BCE. If the bible story that Jesus' family had to flee into Egypt because of Hero's determination to kill Jesus is true, then he must have been born before Herod's death.
"It's hard to work in a group when you're omniscient."
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Snowdragon
Single Cell Organism
United Kingdom
49 Posts |
Posted - 07 October 2006 : 4:51:31 PM
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A lot depends on where you live, if you live in countries that are still strongly Christian like some of the South American Countries BC and AD still mean what they alway meant, only more PC loving countries like ours change the meaning to try to suit everyone.
Cry God for Harry, England and St George |
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Coritanian
Homosapien
United Kingdom
1877 Posts |
Posted - 07 October 2006 : 6:36:09 PM
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Oh, isn't PC a wonderful thing?! I don't like that term so I want it changed to PCE. Don't know what it stands for yet, but adding another letter at the end makes all the difference!
I understand that the dating relates to the birth of Christ, but it's hardly "religious". Surely you should change the numbering aswell. 2006 represents the years since he was born (give or take a few years), but do people find this offensive?
Furthermore, I was in Birmingham the other week and I saw a poster attached to a lamppost, advertising some kind of Islamic festival in the area. Underneath, it gave the date of the event followed by 2006! It seems to not bother the muslims too much. |
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Ankhsy
Homosapien
United Kingdom
7087 Posts |
Posted - 08 October 2006 : 4:36:14 PM
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I doubt many people realise that dates like 2006 has its origins in the Catholic Church. For many years in the 16th century the English calendar ran 10 days behind the Gregorian calendar because the English (and I think other 'Protestant' countries refused to accept the 'Papist' change. This is particualrly confusing when you read English and Spanish dates for the Spanish Armada event, where one account puts it in July and the other in August.
"It's hard to work in a group when you're omniscient."
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drosdelnoch
Small mammal
United Kingdom
482 Posts |
Posted - 08 October 2006 : 6:00:09 PM
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Werent there rumours that Pontious Pilate was born in Scotland?
Legends Never Die, Druss Lives! |
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Parmenion
Homosapien
United Kingdom
13892 Posts |
Posted - 09 October 2006 : 09:38:22 AM
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So should all dates not chage to BPC and DPC
which means wer are currently in about 16APC
Before Political correctness
During Polital correctness
this really started around 1990?
LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE
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drosdelnoch
Small mammal
United Kingdom
482 Posts |
Posted - 09 October 2006 : 10:54:20 AM
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Does this mean that you can actually say things like white coffee, brown sugar, or can you only have that BPC? APC, you have to say coffee with milk, natural sugar etc. lol
Legends Never Die, Druss Lives! |
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Parmenion
Homosapien
United Kingdom
13892 Posts |
Posted - 09 October 2006 : 11:00:35 AM
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yes my friend...once many years ago in our youth we had black coffee, but we were backwards and naive to how that made white coffee feel so in this enligtened time...we must respect the white coffee's feelings. {grin}
LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE
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Ankhsy
Homosapien
United Kingdom
7087 Posts |
Posted - 09 October 2006 : 12:21:27 PM
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These days, its amazing how any barista makes sense of the jargon....like "French roast shade grown flat skinny latte macchiatto to go". Sod respect for white coffee feelings...what about mine?!
"It's hard to work in a group when you're omniscient."
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Coritanian
Homosapien
United Kingdom
1877 Posts |
Posted - 13 October 2006 : 2:38:34 PM
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I've never understood why they took away our black coffee and our blackboards. The board is black and it's a board! It really cannot get any clearer.
I'm half-caste (or dual heritage, as it's supposed to be called now!) and I'm more offended by the stupidity of the PC brigade, thinking that I would be offended by people calling things what they are.
Is anybody out there offended by these things?
So when the centurion and those with him, who were guarding Jesus, saw the earthquake and the things that had happened, they feared greatly, saying, “Truly this was the Son of God!”
Matthew 27:54 |
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Ankhsy
Homosapien
United Kingdom
7087 Posts |
Posted - 13 October 2006 : 2:52:20 PM
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Where I was born (in the Philippines) i was always labelled as a "mestiza"; in my case a "mestisang kastila" which means a half-breed Spanish (the other half being Filipina). I've never felt offended being a half-breed because that is what I am, nor have I ever felt inferior because of it. Among other names, I've been referred to as a Spic, Dago, or Latina. None of it bothers me because that is what I am, a Spaniard, a Diega (femenine of Diego), or a Latinate female. I think people who take offense are probably insecure to start with.
That doesn't give anyone the right to insult another, but many times I believe that we should take responsibility for our own reactions and be so over-sensitive.
"It's hard to work in a group when you're omniscient."
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Edited by - Ankhsy on 14 October 2006 11:29:51 AM |
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Snowdragon
Single Cell Organism
United Kingdom
49 Posts |
Posted - 13 October 2006 : 6:01:17 PM
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| I actually felt embarresed on a plane going to America because I dared to ask for a Black Tea the looks I got from some othe passangers made me want to hide under the seat, seems I should have asked for a natural tea. |
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John Prigent
Homosapien
United Kingdom
8414 Posts |
Posted - 13 October 2006 : 7:40:38 PM
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Ignore them - they're overcompensating.
Cheers
John |
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Parmenion
Homosapien
United Kingdom
13892 Posts |
Posted - 13 October 2006 : 9:32:08 PM
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screw um bloody yanks
LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE
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Alex Scarrow
Ape
969 Posts |
Posted - 14 October 2006 : 5:16:29 PM
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| Just so's I know, how exactly should I ask for a black coffee now? So far I've managed to avoid being called a rascist bigot in Starbucks...but you know, could happen any day now. |
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Parmenion
Homosapien
United Kingdom
13892 Posts |
Posted - 14 October 2006 : 5:47:55 PM
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i think if its white coffee ask for a caucasian coffee.
for black coffee ask for a natural coffe no addatives...thats probably the safest...
LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE
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Coritanian
Homosapien
United Kingdom
1877 Posts |
Posted - 14 October 2006 : 5:54:52 PM
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If you want black coffee, ask for black coffee. Tell 'em I said you could say it!
So when the centurion and those with him, who were guarding Jesus, saw the earthquake and the things that had happened, they feared greatly, saying, “Truly this was the Son of God!”
Matthew 27:54 |
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drosdelnoch
Small mammal
United Kingdom
482 Posts |
Posted - 15 October 2006 : 8:57:46 PM
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In a john wayne accent, lol.
Seriously though Alex I worry about the same thing. I mean for gods sake if I want a coffee thats natural I will ask for a black coffee, after all thats how it looks in the cup. What am I meant to say, I want a natural coffee in one of those white styrofoam cups next to it. Its getting stupid, Oh and remember its no longer a manhole cover its a person hole cover. Im of the same opinion as Billy that when women want to climb down into the mess of human living and shovel it for a living, then its a person hole cover until then its a manhole cover.
Legends Never Die, Druss Lives! |
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Welsh Dragon
Invertebrate
United Kingdom
143 Posts |
Posted - 26 November 2006 : 4:05:40 PM
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Talking of political correctness at this time of year reminds me of the whole Merry Christmas issue.
You're not allowed to say "Merry Christmas" as it may offend those who don't celebrate Christmas. Instead you have to use the rather bland "Happy Holidays" (which as we all know, discriminates against grumpy people who have to work over Christmas.)
But ironically, recently a delegation went to Parliament to call for the Christ to stay in Christmas. And who were there? Christians obviously, and Muslims, and I believe some other faith representatives from different religions.
So if the Muslims, the Hindus, the Jews, etc all have no problem with Christmas, then why does the PC brigade?
Well I say, Merry Christmas to you all in advance. |
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Snowdragon
Single Cell Organism
United Kingdom
49 Posts |
Posted - 26 November 2006 : 4:46:15 PM
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It's pc councils who are so scared of offending someone that they offend everyone (suppose they are being democratic there). Just loved the story in the paper the other day about the Muslim Family who set up the largest show of Christmas lights on their house in their neighbourhood and they said they just love Christmas.
Cry God for Harry, England and St George |
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